episode 46 | Unlocking Business Success: Emma Fishlock's Insights on Authentic Podcasting and Niche Strategies
In this week's episode, I'm joined by Emma Fishlock, founder of RWC (Real World Consultancy.)
Emma founded Real World Consultancy (RWC) in 2018 to help small businesses overcome barriers to growth.
RWC is now a multi-award-winning business coaching company based in the west midlands helping small and micro businesses to thrive and punch above their weight. RWC has created a coaching and support method that has now helped more than 500 business owners, the company is also launching a new arm of the business in 2024 as a training academy for business coaches.
"We are known for our fun, ‘real’, and engaging approach to business, and I'm proud of that.”
Our conversation is centred around the importance of authenticity, finding what makes you unique and making a podcast that is targeted to your audience.
Emma offers up some great advice, here are the top takeaways for the episode:
⭐ It takes time to find your voice. There's trial and error here.
⭐ Be brave enough to niche.
⭐ Be relevant - don't get caught up with what you want. Find out what they want.
⭐ Be realistic with your expectations.
⭐ Once you've started, use that data to refine your approach.
You can find out more about Emma and the RWC team on their website or connect with them on LinkedIn.
Transcript for episode:
Rachael Botfield: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to Podcasting 101 with Rachael. This podcast is for busy female entrepreneurs who run their own businesses and want to start podcasts or who may already have a podcast. I want to share practical information and tips on how you can get your podcast started and managing it along the way.
I'll also be interviewing other female podcast hosts to give you real insight into what it's like having your own podcast.
Hi, and welcome to this week's episode. Today I have Emma Fishlock with me, who is from the Real World Consultancy based in Worcester. And we are going to talk about how it's important to find your voice and having your [00:01:00] authenticity in your podcast. And also the importance of linking that with your target audience.
Obviously they're the most important thing that you. Need to be thinking about when you're writing your content for your podcast. So welcome emma. It's lovely to have you here Do you want to tell us a little bit about you and about real world consultancy?
Emma Fishlock: Absolutely. It's really really lovely to be here.
So thank you for having me on so I set up real world consultancy in 2018 which now feels like ages ago. So we, we, it went really quickly and then it went really slowly and then really quickly. So we've just turned well at the beginning of the year. We turned five. So we're a business coaching company.
We started so when I started the business, it was just me. And We went through our own journey of of finding our target audience and nation and sort of targeting down to where we are now, really, which is we focus on micro and small businesses. So we were predominantly with I'd say 80 percent of our our clients are in the micro business space of one to 10 employees.
Quite often they're people that [00:02:00] work by themselves. They haven't really got a sounding board. They're looking to sort of punch above their weight and and stand out. But but don't really necessarily have the incentive to make it into the next Google or something massive. It's more around building the business that you set out to achieve in the first place.
And I'm definitely one of those. I'm quite happy to stay in the micro small business field and sit in that area. So we champion all things micro and small. We've now got a team of there's three of us operationally says myself another head coach and a business growth manager. And then we've got a team of four associate coaches that work with us as well.
So we've we've just moved our, moved ourselves out to just outside Upton Snodsbury, which is really nice. So we were in the middle of Worcester, but we're now surrounded by beautiful fields and sheep and horses, which is lovely.
Rachael Botfield: Is that where I came to see you that time? Is it, or have you moved again?
Emma Fishlock: We've just moved. You've just moved again? Oh, okay. We moved into a we moved into a serviced office for a year. Just to sort of settle as a, as a team. Cause obviously three of us are kind of hybrid in [00:03:00] between the office and at home. And then the other half all, all all work from home. But we found this beautiful sort of barn conversion.
It's actually called the coach house. So surrounded by like. Field and sheep and horses and sort of nice stable doors. So we moved in to end of last week. Oh,
Rachael Botfield: lovely full disclosure. Everyone listening. And I live very close to where Emma is based in Worcester. And that is how I had some support with coaching with the local enterprise program.
And that's how I came across. Emma and real world consultancy because I had one of their lovely coaches, Christina Lynch was my coach for 12 weeks and yeah, there is some beautiful countryside around Worcester. And that's great that you managed to get somewhere. A Snodsbury always makes me laugh.
I know that's very natural of me. So yeah, five years. So you've managed to now really niche down into looking your ideal clients being micro businesses. And I love that. I love that.[00:04:00] Because obviously, I think a lot of listeners here will also be the same. They're, they're solopreneurs or have very small teams, maybe a VA or somebody that helps them in that way, or their accountant.
And I, I'm just me and I don't have aspirations to go to like, like you said, Google level, I don't want, that's not, I, I like myself being a small business and I'd like to kind of stay within that small business realm. And I think that a lot of listeners as well, are in the same, similar position with that.
And I think adding a podcast to, to that business is a really valuable asset. It's what I've done for my business. And I know there's quite a few other people that have done it as well. And if you're here listening, you obviously really would like to get a podcast for your business as well. So.
Like we, like I mentioned earlier, we were going to have a little look at kind of talk about like finding your voice and your authenticity for your podcast, because I think as with everything, with your marketing in your business, you want to be coming across as you, as [00:05:00] much as possible. Isn't that right, Emma?
And. you know, how to because I love when you look at your brand with the three of you with it's is it Esther and Eliza? That's
Emma Fishlock: the, yeah. Yeah. So, so there's three of us at the core and then we've got yeah, the four associate coaches. Yeah. But yeah, we're the core team. But
Rachael Botfield: I, I guess when I see your branding and I get your busy, you're very friendly and approachable and you always giving across.
I don't feel like there's any in- authenticity there when I look at your brand. What, what would you recommend or to start with, with somebody say they're thinking about starting a podcast for their business. Where's the best place to start with just getting to grips with all that side of things with themselves, especially if they're new to that kind of business world.
Emma Fishlock: Absolutely. Firstly, thank you. That's a real, I think that's a real compliment. When I set up the business, I set it up as real world consultancy because one of the things that was important to me was. The whole, it was being real, being authentic being real in terms of [00:06:00] realistic in terms of what, what expectations are and stuff like that.
And when I started the business if I would probably, I don't think I even want to do this exercise, but if I went back now and looked at the stuff that I was doing for maybe the first year, I would absolutely cringe because. It, it wouldn't sound at all like we do now. Not many people would start a business or start a podcast as soon as they leave school.
We've all gone into different jobs. We've all had different careers. We've all had something that's got us to the point where we are now. And sometimes it's hard to shake that. I came from a very corporate background. And I, I absolutely just laugh my head off when I, when I think about how I was still trying to be.
When I started the business, because you feel like you you put on this professional facade of this is what a business owner looks like. This is what a very sensible senior leader looks like. And sometimes it's very hard to shake that off and just go, actually I'm going to be completely authentic, which means that I'm going to really resonate with some people.
But it was also being brave enough to resonate.[00:07:00]
with a lot of other people. And so I think don't expect that authenticity to come overnight, unless you're really already clear on who you are, what your personal drivers are, what you love talking about, why you love the business or the podcast or the, or the if you're writing a book or anything like that, why you've done that and why you've been sort of Why your brain's gone, that's the thing that I need to do.
It takes a while to find that authentic voice, I think, and it's been brave enough to realize that in doing that, you will potentially not be everyone's cup of tea, but actually, that is a brilliant thing. And it's something that we work with people a lot on business coaching is you don't want to be everyone's cup of tea.
No one wants to be the person that. Does a little bit of everything. You want to be the go to person in a set area. But in order to establish that and find your voice in that area, you have to fight, you have to know that that's what you want and you have to recognize it and you have to identify what that looks like so that you can be authentic, you can stick to [00:08:00] it.
And also making brave decisions as well around the type of work that you take on or the type of if you're doing podcasting and then you're asked to talk on lots of other things, maybe the type of gigs you take on, making sure that you're you're staying in line with that authentic voice, but also staying in line with your personal values and everything that you've set up around what you're trying to achieve.
Rachael Botfield: I definitely, yeah, it does. I completely agree with that. I mean, I'm just over two years in now and. I, to start with, I, I didn't know, I also, I didn't niche down into podcasting straight away. I was a virtual assistant and so I did some different types of things there. And even now, I, I don't, I think especially with my podcast, things are evolving.
And they, you know, it does take time and, and it is okay for you to evolve. Like I remember and when we, when we go on to think about the target audience, like your ideal client, those things can [00:09:00] change as your business and, and or podcast evolves and you're right. You do. Cause say, for example, when I first started, I never really posted on LinkedIn and then I was really worried about it.
I was worried what people were going to. Say what, if I wrote something wrong and that kind of whole imposter syndrome thing. I think that can be quite at odds with what you're trying to find your authenticity. And then as that time goes on and you just give it a try, you then find out things you do like.
And more importantly. what you don't like. And also like when you talk about, you know, you will not appeal to everybody, but you don't want to appeal to everybody because the same with marketing, isn't it? When it's you market to everybody, you market to nobody because you can't, it's impossible for you to have something that is for everybody.
You've got to have that, but it does, like I say, I think agree with you. It takes time and you shouldn't beat yourself up if you feel like you have, you're not quite there because. As your business, like if your business grows a little bit more as well, you'll take on new people. It might shift [00:10:00] slightly. So it's just kind of making, I don't know, kind of like look back at certain things.
I try to look back a little bit and think about where I've come and what things and like evaluate. Just like.
every so often every couple of months and to kind of help refocus and think about those things. Is that something that you, that you think about as well, kind of on an ongoing basis?
Emma Fishlock: Yeah, so we always use for us and clients, we always use three months as a planning sort of window anyway, because when you look at.
Stuff that's so far from the distance. It's just so overwhelming because it feels like a massive mountain. So we always chunk everything down into into sort of three month goals and then two, two week focuses. And every time we look at our three months, it is about what went well. What did we do?
What's like, we've got a victory board in the office. And that could be like tiny stuff up to massive stuff. It doesn't have to be like. I've won this award or I've done it. It could be, [00:11:00] we finally did that page on the website. We've been trying to do for three years and it's been at the bottom of the to do list.
It's, we look back and try and recognize as a team, what are all the things that actually we've learned this in this three months and all the things that you've achieved. And quite often the stuff that's gone completely wrong or hasn't hit the mark. And you've learned from is the stuff that you then actually are your biggest achievements because they're what that's what helps you get to the next thing.
And if I look back at the business now five years ago. I mean, it doesn't even slightly resemble where where we are now. But that's, that's a real positive thing. And, and that is for, for anyone looking back. I, I imagine that most people that have done a podcast will look back on their first episode and like me looking at the content that I put out will absolutely cringe and think, oh my God, what was I doing that was terrible?
I ed there, I did this and I, but you'll do the same looking back in five years to what you're doing right now, because it actually mm-hmm. , that's all about. Evolution and learning and developing and the more you identify stuff to learn, the better and [00:12:00] better you'll get and no one starts perfect. No one ends perfect.
So it's just about learning as learning as you go. Really? And yes, we absolutely. For us and our clients are constantly trying to look at, we don't, we try not to recognize failure. It's not such stuff isn't failure. We just rephrase it as it's an iteration of success. So it's the first iteration in, in, in something else.
If, if I wrote a book and it was. completely flopped. That's not a failure. It's a learning that I can take away and look at. Why did it flop? Who was I writing it for? Was I writing it for the right reasons? Did I not market it properly? Did I like, did I put it through the wrong channels? It's, it's the first iteration of the next thing that might then also not be.
Exactly as I want it, but by the fifth or sixth time, I might have got to the place I wanted to be in the first place. Yeah,
Rachael Botfield: I love that. I do. I very much agree with that statement about not calling it failing. And I think that there is this kind of thing as well in, in some, some people in the [00:13:00] online space where you know, everybody thinks everybody else is getting it first time, you know.
Release the podcast. It's charted. I've, I've done my marketing. I've got all these new thing and it's just simply not the case. It's, it's very vulnerable to talk about those kinds of things on, on social media, because you feel like it might affect you or your business. But I do really think that that you're trying and you're being, you know.
Your, you won't know if you can do it unless you have already done it. And that applies to anything within your business, whether that's a podcast or you're doing a new launch or, you know, like say writing a book, unless you try, I mean, I, myself, I'm planning something and I've. Procrastinating around it and being worrying about it.
I've never done it before. Am I doing it right? And I just thought you're just getting yourself caught up here. Unless I do, I'm never going to know or that I can actually get it sorted because I haven't tried it yet. So I do, I do think that's a great sentiment to go forward with your business and the projects that you've got planned for [00:14:00] it.
So we've talked a little bit about helping to try and find your authenticity for your podcast and for your business as well, because obviously they're all going to everything's linking up with your, your business and your marketing. So one thing also that's really important is like identifying your target audience.
For, for your podcast. So I was at the podcast show a couple of months ago and I attended a talk and they were looking at different analytics they've analyzed in some different podcasts and kind of one of the biggest things was relevant, is this podcast relevant? To me and we, but before we chatted, before we hit record, we talked about that Venn diagram, didn't we?
That sweet spot between what you actually want to do for your podcast and what your audience actually wants and needs to hear from you. And so it's kind of hitting that bit in the middle. What's your kind, have you got any advice or tips around, you know, helping identify that for your business or for your, for your podcast?
Emma Fishlock: Absolutely, because I think [00:15:00] if you look at the reasons why people start a podcast, you've got people that start a podcast because maybe it's a it's a hobby or something that they enjoy doing that they can then reach out to others on the same topic. But also you have a lot of businesses now using it as a tool to get their, their voice and opinions heard to use it as a marketing tool.
I mean, there's, there's like a million and one coaches. There's like a million and one business coaches that are in the same space as us. So if I was to launch a podcast and not think about my target audience more than it's small and micro businesses, I would be nuts because why would someone listen to me rather than those other 1, 001 or however many I said coaches that are out there doing the same thing.
If you have to refine it right down. So that you understand who you're talking to, why they would listen and why they would listen to you rather than someone else. So it's exactly the same as when you're defining your business. You want to know exactly what your USP is. You want to know what makes me unique.
What, why would people pick me rather than [00:16:00] somebody else? And that's exactly the same when you're looking at a podcast. It's why would someone want to listen to me rather than someone else? And that's not in a negative way. Digging deep to work out what, what is it about what I've got to say that is relevant, that is engaging, that is interesting, that is informative.
What is it that you're trying to do for who? So for, and, and think about it's not just, so we wouldn't say it's just for micro and small businesses. We would then be digging into is micro and small businesses that potentially feel like they're isolated. They feel isolated and they like to use humor. And you might then, so have a podcast which is aimed at micro and small business owners that are feeling lonely, but want something upbeat and uplifting.
It's not about necessarily knowledge, it's about maybe the comedic side of of, of business ownership. So you need to drill down even further into your audience and pick that persona that you're talking to. Mm-hmm. . And for me it's that sweet spot between. You need [00:17:00] to work out, what could you sit and talk about all day?
What do you love talking about? What absolutely is your like passion topic? And then what do people want to listen to? Cause if you've got a passion topic and you can talk about it all day and it's really interesting, but no one wants to hear it, then it's great. What a lovely hobby,
Rachael Botfield: but it's not going to work for your business at all.
Emma Fishlock: And it's, and it's still maybe a brilliant pastime and something to do, but if you're looking at it from a. Business delivery, a marketing tool, you need to think, right, what is something that I'm so passionate about that I love talking about that I can talk about until the cows come home that I want to shout from the rooftops, combine that with what do people want to hear, put it together.
That's where that Venn diagram comes in. There's that sweet spot in the middle of what have I got to say that people want to hear and they want to hear it in the way that I have to say it. And they want to hear it from me rather than other people, because And if you can find that, that specific area, you can then focus in because [00:18:00] otherwise you've got no, you need to have your audience in mind when you're talking, you need to be focusing on that.
And if you're not clear on what you're trying to achieve with it, who you're trying to talk to, how you're trying to talk to them, how you want them to feel when they've when, when they've signed off and why they should listen to you, your strategy is going to be a bit disjointed and then that's just going to lead to.
a fun outlet, but not necessarily the tool that you wanted it to be in the first place.
Rachael Botfield: Yeah, it won't make it as effective as you would like it to be. And I mean, and there's no one to say that you're going to get this right first time. My podcast has changed over the year that I, over the. I've started it last March, this podcasting 101, this one I did have a previous podcast, but that was more, was to do with virtual assistants.
And then I felt I wanted to do something more in line with what I was doing. So there I evolved that podcast and thought, right, this is what I want to move over to do something. And I think that as we said before, with finding your voice and authenticity, they will kind of all [00:19:00] flow and link together. But if you are starting out, it does feel sometimes like.
that's not going to happen. But you just need to kind of my biggest advice would just be like, just to keep on trying. And once you start, like, if even if you think you, it's, you're not ready to publish, you find that and you can use things like you know, different statistic tools to, to work out like which of your episodes have worked really well and you can go from there and which ones haven't, and then you can kind of start.
In that way as well to help move you forward with, you know, trying to drill down and to see what really works with your audience for your podcast.
Emma Fishlock: I think the great thing about that as well is, so we've, we, we have, I've, I've done a couple of podcasts. I've been on a couple and then done a couple of joint podcasts before.
And we've pushed them out there and it, and I wouldn't say that our audience was clear. I wouldn't say that our marketing would be very clear. And so no one's actually listened to them. So what's the worst that can happen? Yeah, [00:20:00] exactly. Yeah. Yeah, a couple of years ago, we dabbled in it and then when actually, because it takes so much time, doesn't it?
It's a big investment and it's something next year. Sort of me talking earlier about the the different components. That's actually where we plan to sort of eventually land. With the podcast is in my head, I want the Bridget Jones of small business ownership podcast, but you have to have the time to commit to it and do it properly because it is actually like we've dabbled in it before and it is a huge.
Huge time commitment and it's like setting up a whole new arm of the business. So it is, it's a big commitment, isn't it?
Rachael Botfield: Yeah, it is. I think because there's a lot, there's a lot in the planning as well to ensuring that the content like we've just talked about is in, you know, aimed at the right people. But then, then you just record the episodes, but then you do, then you've got all the production elements.
From that to go in, you've got to try and fit this extra piece of work into your schedule with your, with you workload and with what you're already doing for your clients as well. [00:21:00] So those type of things as well, it does need to be thought about carefully as to whether or not you can fit it in your business.
I mean, if you're the type of person that just wants to start a podcast for your business, you just start one, that's okay too, but they, but. I think when you start thinking about it a little bit more strategically and working out the benefits of that podcast specifically for your business, then it does take a little bit more thought into making sure that these things like relevance and, you know, production value and things like that, you're doing them the best that you can.
Yeah.
Emma Fishlock: And I think the only danger with, with the, cause one of my biggest things is like, just, just do it. You just do it and you see, but it's just then sometimes being realistic with. The engagement levels and if you and the same with people start a business and they'll check stuff out and be like, ta da, my website's live, where are my sales?
And it's being realistic with the fact that actually just because you've done something and chucked it out there doesn't mean that people are going to come flooding and listen to it or buy it or engage with it. So it's being [00:22:00] realistic about if you start something and you chuck it out there and you get no engagement, that's not because.
You should give up and it's not the right thing to do. It means that you probably haven't narrowed it down enough yet or you haven't marked it in the right way or you haven't found your voice. So that's not a reason to stop doing it. It's just a reason to continually try and refine what you're doing until like you say, look at the statistics and go, Interesting.
That one got more engagement. I wonder why it did. Oh, look, it's because I actually marked it better. Maybe it's not. The content, it's just how I'm talking about it. And all that one got more engagement because I had a guest speaker. So maybe people like having guests on there. You can start to use that, but you can't use that data and you can't learn.
If you don't have it.
Rachael Botfield: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that is, that's, that's a great piece of advice. I think that's the the best thing to do is start and then you can use that data. Going forward for your business. Thanks so much for coming and chatting with me today. I'd just like to leave have you got, like, a top piece of advice?
You've offered lots of advice throughout the episode. Have you got a top piece of advice that you'd like to leave the listeners with? [00:23:00]
Emma Fishlock: I'd say, having a think about the things that we've spoken about today, I think it's just be brave. Don't worry about, like, stop using the word failure and think of it as iterations of success.
And find that sweet spot. If you can find your sweet spot of what you want to talk about and what you're unashamedly passionate about, and the stuff that people are interested in and you're brave about how you approach that, and you expect that it won't just be perfect straight away, so you have realistic expectations, you set yourself up for a really strong and like quite a strategic start to your podcast, and then from there you can iterate and learn and use the data and refine but just keep going.
Keep going with it. That's
Rachael Botfield: great. Do you want to let everybody know where they can find you? And also I know that you have something exciting coming up that you'd like to talk about as well. Yeah,
Emma Fishlock: sure. So you can find us at www. realworldconsultancy. org. There's links on there to have a cuppa and a catch up, but all about cuppa and catch [00:24:00] ups.
It's kind of become our thing. Yeah.
Rachael Botfield: Love that. Oh yeah. The cake is always very good when I've been to see
Emma Fishlock: you. So we've got so yeah, we're, we're. We've got a few things going on at the moment. We've we're delivering all the funded coaching again for Worcestershire, which is very exciting. So we're delivering funded business coaching for Worcestershire based businesses.
We're carrying on with all of our clients, private clients. We've got a biz fest coming up in November. So it's like a it's a business conference, but we've combined it with a festival theme. So again, we're, our values are very much around like, As being able to be passionate about what's going on as feeling that we bring the fun that we're engaging.
So we thought, right, how do we do things a bit differently? I know we'll we'll scrap the conference and have a festival. So we've got BizFest coming up. And then interestingly, next year, we're going to be launching a sister company, which will be Real World Academy. So where we'll be training up other business coaches.
So that's, that's very exciting. And so I'm currently going through my whole [00:25:00] exercise of looking at who my target audience are making sure that
Rachael Botfield: I'm, yeah. That's brilliant. I'm really excited for BizFest as well for you guys. And thanks so much for coming onto the show. We'll pop all of your links in the show notes.
So if people are interested in finding you, or if there's any local people listening and you're interested in getting some coaching. With the enterprising, that is how I came across Emma and the company. And I would really rate it. So I would apply that and give it a try and meet all the lovely ladies there at Real World Consultancy.
So thanks Emma. And we'll catch up with you soon. Nice to talk to you, Rachel. Thanks. Bye. Thanks for listening to the show. If you'd like to connect with me or get in touch, then head on over to my website. If you liked the episode, then I'd love it if you could leave me a review in your chosen podcast app.
Your feedback is much appreciated. See you next time.